This Daf deals with the most dearly held elements of local custom, beginning with food. How and what we eat defines us more than anything else, and the Talmud reports here on agricultural, economic, and ritual practices around food -- including the ripple effect of a diasporic leader, Theodosius of Rome, who acts in defiance of the custom of the Land of Israel.
Our Kollel focused on a discussion of the issues of authority: who is empowered to permit or forbid certain foods to be eaten, and how it fits into (or grates against) a larger regional structure of legal conduct. As the Talmudic conversation turned from the tangible to the mythical, our responses followed in the form of a written exploration of the Shamir, an iron-eating worm, and why it's crucial to nestle the stuff of legends within a discourse grounded in realism.
Click here to learn more about this commentary and the Kreuzberg Kollel.
תנו רבנן אוכלין בענבים עד שיכלו דליות של אוכל אם יש מאוחרות מהן אוכלין עליהן אוכלים בזיתים עד שיכלה אחרון שבתקוע רבי אליעזר אומר עד שיכלה אחרון של גוש חלב כדי שיהא עני יוצא ואינו מוצא לא בנופו ולא בעיקרו רובע אוכלין בגרוגרות עד שיכלו פגי בית היני אמר רבי יהודה לא הוזכרו פגי בית היני אלא לענין מעשר (דתנן) פגי בית היני ואהיני דטובינא חייבין במעשר:
The Sages taught: One may eat grapes during the Sabbatical Year until the grapes on the vine branches in the place called Okhel have ceased. And if there are grapes elsewhere later than those, one may continue eating grapes on their basis, as the Sages’ statement is merely based on the assumption that the grapes in Okhel are the last to remain in the field, but the halakha is not specific to them. Similarly, one may eat olives until the final olives have ceased on the trees in Tekoa. Rabbi Eliezer says: One may eat olives until the final olives have ceased on the trees in Gush Ḥalav. At what point is the fruit considered to have ceased? At the point that a poor person will go out to search for fruit and find, neither in the tree’s branches nor in the proximity of its trunk, a quarter-kav of olives that have fallen. One may eat dried figs until the unripe figs of Beit Hini have ceased. Rabbi Yehuda said: The unripe figs of Beit Hini were mentioned only with regard to tithes, not with regard to the Sabbatical Year. As we learned in a mishna: The unripe figs of Beit Hini and the dates of Tovyana, both of which never completely ripen but are nonetheless edible, one is obligated to tithe them.
Josh W.
The grapes of Ochel.... older manuscripts have a few variants on this name. Some say Ochel, some say Avel, some say Bavel, some say Eshel.
אוכלין בתמרים עד שיכלה האחרון שבצוער רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר אוכלין על של בין הכיפין ואין אוכלין על של בין השיצין ורמינהי אוכלין בענבים עד הפסח בזיתים עד העצרת בגרוגרות עד החנוכה בתמרים עד הפורים ואמר רב ביבי רבי יוחנן תרתי בתרייתא מחליף אידי ואידי חד שיעורא הוא ואי בעית אימא הא קתני בהדיא אם יש מאוחרות מהן אוכלין עליהן
תניא רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר סימן להרים מילין סימן לעמקים דקלים סימן לנחלים קנים סימן לשפלה שקמה ואף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר שנאמר ויתן המלך את הכסף בירושלים כאבנים ואת הארזים נתן כשקמים אשר בשפלה לרוב סימן להרים מילין סימן לעמקים דקלים נפקא מינה לבכורים דתנן אין מביאין בכורים אלא משבעת המינין ולא מדקלים שבהרים ולא מפירות שבעמקים
The Gemara continues: It was taught in a baraita that Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: A good sign for mountains is that gallnut oaks, used in the preparation of ink, grow there. A good sign for valleys is palm trees. A good sign for streams is reeds. A good sign for the plain is a sycamore tree. And although there is no proof for these indicators, there is an allusion to the matter in the verse, as it is stated: “And the king made silver to be in Jerusalem like stones, and he made cedars to be as the sycamore trees in the plain” (I Kings 10:27). The Gemara elaborates on this baraita: A good sign for mountains is gallnut oaks, a good sign for valleys is palm trees. What purpose is served by these signs? The practical difference of these signs pertains to the halakha of first fruits. As we learned in a mishna: One may bring first fruits only from the seven species and only from the highest quality fruit. Therefore, one may not bring first fruits from palm trees that grow in the mountains. Since the mountains are not a suitable location for palm trees, the dates grown there are inferior. Similarly, one does not bring first fruits from produce, i.e., from wheat and barley, that grow in the valleys, because mountain fruits do not grow there properly.
Ben O.
Pesachim 53a:8-9 (above) seems to take us from the literal approach in Deuteronomy to a more symbolic idea of Bikkurim - choosing symbolic indicators of your crops, rather than literally bringing all of your first fruit. For example, bringing your gallnuts to a party is probably less fun than bringing your dates...
סימן לנחלים קנים נפקא מינה לנחל איתן סימן לשפלה שקמה נפקא מינה למקח וממכר השתא דאתית להכי כולהו נמי למקח וממכר:
A good sign for streams is reeds. The case where this sign makes a practical halakhic difference is with regard to the rough dried-up stream mentioned in the Torah. When a corpse is found between two towns and the murderer cannot be identified, the Torah states that a calf’s neck is broken in a rough stream. The baraita teaches that growing reeds identify the spot as a stream. A good sign for the plain is a sycamore tree. The Gemara explains that the case where this sign makes a practical difference is with regard to buying and selling. If one stipulates that he is buying land in the plains, it is defined as an area where sycamore trees grow. The Gemara notes: Now that you have arrived at this practical halakhic difference with regard to assessing the quality of land for the purpose of transactions, all the signs can be understood as pertaining to buying and selling as well, to identify valleys and mountainous regions.
Ben O.
Pesachim 53a:10 (above) again seems to shift our understanding of crops and plants to be more about geography - about having agreed geographical terms that we can use for a legal understanding of land as property, and a halakhic understanding of land as how it will be used for carrying out commandments...
how do we relate this to the diaspora - bearing in mind this conversation is happening in Babylonia?
Deborah C.
Minhag steps in within the grey zone - because there are different places with different situations, in order to be able to follow the essence of the law, we need Minhag
Shoshana R.
Minhag is probably what the Gemara is doing all the time: questioning equalizing for equalizing as an ideal...
וּבָשָׂר לָא? מֵיתִיבִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: תּוֹדוֹס אִישׁ רוֹמִי הִנְהִיג אֶת בְּנֵי רוֹמִי לֶאֱכוֹל גְּדָיִים מְקוּלָּסִין בְּלֵילֵי פְּסָחִים. שָׁלְחוּ לוֹ: אִלְמָלֵא תּוֹדוֹס אַתָּה גָּזַרְנוּ עָלֶיךָ נִדּוּי, שֶׁאַתָּה מַאֲכִיל אֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל קָדָשִׁים בַּחוּץ. ״קָדָשִׁים״ סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ! אֶלָּא אֵימָא: קָרוֹב לְהַאֲכִיל אֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל קָדָשִׁים בַּחוּץ. מְקוּלָּס — אִין, שֶׁאֵין מְקוּלָּס — לָא! אָמְרִי, מְקוּלָּס: לָא שְׁנָא אֲמַר, לָא שְׁנָא לָא אֲמַר. שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְקוּלָּס: פֵּירֵשׁ — אִין, לֹא פֵּירֵשׁ — לָא.
The Gemara asks: And with regard to meat is that not the case? Is it really prohibited to say that meat is for Passover? The Gemara raises an objection. Rabbi Yosei said: Theodosius [Todos] of Rome, leader of the Jewish community there, instituted the custom for the Roman Jews to eat kids roasted [mekulas] whole with their entrails over their heads on the evenings of Passover, as was the custom in the Temple. The Sages sent a message to him: If you were not Theodosius, an important person, we would have decreed ostracism upon you, as it appears as if you are feeding Israel consecrated food, which may be eaten only in and around the Temple itself, outside the permitted area. The Gemara asks about the terminology used here: Could it enter your mind that this meat was actually consecrated meat? That was certainly not the case. Rather, say instead: Doing so is akin to feeding Jews consecrated meat outside the permitted area, as due to its resemblance to the Paschal lamb it could be misleading. The Gemara analyzes this statement: A goat roasted whole, yes, it is prohibited; a goat not roasted whole, no, it is not prohibited. This contradicts Rav, who prohibited roasting even ordinary meat. The Sages say that this is the distinction: With regard to a goat roasted whole, there is no difference if one said it is for Passover, and there is no difference if one did not say it is for Passover. In either case, it looks like a sacrifice and it is prohibited. With regard to a goat not roasted whole, if one specified that it is for Passover, yes, it is prohibited because it appears that he is consecrating it as a sacrifice. However, if one did not specify that it is for Passover, no, it is not prohibited, as there is no need for concern.
Musings from Shiur
Relate this to the story in Joshua - the tribes set up another altar, and are accused of heresy and threatened with law; but they explain that they are just trying to maintain their connection to G-d - even in a different context, perhaps even a different culture...
רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בַּר אָבִין אָמַר: מֵטִיל מְלַאי לְכִיס שֶׁל תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים הָיָה. דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: כׇּל הַמֵּטִיל מְלַאי לְכִיס תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים זוֹכֶה וְיוֹשֵׁב בִּישִׁיבָה שֶׁל מַעְלָה, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״כִּי בְּצֵל הַחׇכְמָה בְּצֵל הַכָּסֶף״.
Rabbi Yosei bar Avin said: Theodosius was one who cast the profits from merchandise into the purse of Torah scholars. He would lend them money and enter into partnership with them so they could open businesses, and that is praiseworthy, as Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Anyone who casts merchandise into the purse of Torah scholars is rewarded and sits in the heavenly academy, as it is stated: “For in the shadow of wisdom, is the shadow of money” (Ecclesiastes 7:12). One who provides Torah scholars with money will merit being with them in the shadow of wisdom.
Paul S.
I also love how Torah scholars rule that giving money to Torah scholars is super important.
Sabrina S.
Did anyone really believe Theodosius was a good guy? It's like Herod, with Rome they're under their violent fists but want to appear as if they are in control, is my read
Jeremy B.
Theodosius is maybe a contemporary of Shimon ben Shetach (see the text in Berakhot 19a) who is living in about 100 BCE
Open Questions from the sugya
what's the context of saying this meat is for passover?
who are you saying it to?
is this about defining the rule of what can be done at home vs. in the temple?
how much authority does Theodosius have?
what's the status of the Jewish community in Rome in this time?
See below for Jeremy's video from Limmud teaching about Theodosius!
GEMARA: It was taught in the Tosefta: Both in a place where the Sages said to kindle and in a place where they said not to kindle, they both intended to achieve the same objective. Rav Yehoshua said that Rava taught: “Your people are all righteous, they shall inherit the land forever; the branch of My planting, the work of My hands, in which I glory” (Isaiah 60:21). Both in a place where the Sages said to kindle and in a place where they said not to kindle, they intended only to achieve the same objective.
Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: One should recite the blessing over fire: Who creates the lights of fire, only at the conclusion of Shabbat, since the conclusion of Shabbat is the time of its original creation. A certain Elder said to him, and some say it was Rabba bar bar Ḥana who said: That is correct; and so said Rabbi Yoḥanan.
Ulla was riding on a donkey and going along, and Rabbi Abba was going along on his right and Rabba bar bar Ḥana on his left. Rabbi Abba said to Ulla: Is it true that you said in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan that one recites the blessing over fire only at the conclusion of Shabbat, not at the conclusion of Yom Kippur, since the time of its original creation is the conclusion of Shabbat?
Since Ulla never transmitted that statement, he understood that it must have been Rabba bar bar Ḥana who heard it from Rabbi Yoḥanan and transmitted it when he came from Eretz Yisrael. Ulla turned around and looked angrily at Rabba bar bar Ḥana for misquoting Rabbi Yoḥanan. Still, Ulla said nothing.
However, Rabba bar bar Ḥana understood what had happened and said to him: I did not say anything about that matter; rather, what I said was about that which the reciter of the tannaitic literature taught before Rabbi Yoḥanan and reported that Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: With regard to Yom Kippur that occurs on Shabbat, even in a place where they said not to kindle a lamp on Yom Kippur, one kindles in deference to Shabbat. Rabbi Yoḥanan answered after him and completed the statement: And the Rabbis prohibit kindling a lamp even when Yom Kippur occurs on Shabbat.
Ulla said to Rabbi Abba: Let it be, I agree that Rabbi Yoḥanan indeed made such a statement.
Rav Yosef read the following verse about this event: “Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out” (Proverbs 20:5). Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; that is a reference to Ulla, who had a thought but did not articulate it. But a man of understanding will draw it out; that is a reference to Rabba bar bar Ḥana, who understood the allusion even though it was not articulated.
And in accordance with whose opinion do Ulla and Rabba bar bar Ḥana hold, leading them to reject Rabbi Abba’s statement of Rabbi Yoḥanan’s opinion? They hold in accordance with that which Rabbi Binyamin bar Yefet said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: One recites the blessing over fire both at the conclusion of Shabbat and at the conclusion of Yom Kippur. And that is how the people act.
On Pesachim 53a-54b: reasoning with the miraculous, imagining the real
By Ben Osborn
The title [The Book of Imaginary Beings] would justify the inclusion of Prince Hamlet, of the point, of the line, of the surface, of n-dimensional hyperplanes and hypervolumes, of all generic terms, and perhaps of each one of us and of the godhead. In brief, the sum of all things - the universe. [...] We are ignorant of the meaning of the dragon in the same way that we are ignorant of the meaning of the universe, but there is something in the dragon’s image that fits man’s imagination, and this accounts for the dragon’s appearance in different places and periods.
Introduction to El libro de los seres imaginarios, The Book of Imaginary Beings
Jorge Luis Borges and Margarita Guerrero
Ten miraculous phenomena were created in heaven on Shabbat eve during twilight, and were revealed in the world only later. They were: Miriam’s well, and the manna that fell in the desert, and the rainbow, writing [ketav], and the writing instrument [mikhtav], and the tablets of the Ten Commandments, and the grave of Moses, and the cave in which Moses and Elijah stood, the opening of the mouth of Balaam’s donkey, and the opening of the earth’s mouth to swallow the wicked in the incident involving Korah. Rabbi Neḥemya said in the name of his father: Even the fire and the mule, which is a product of crossbreeding, were created at that time. Rabbi Yoshiya said in the name of his father: Even the ram slaughtered by Abraham in place of Isaac, and the shamir [שמיר] worm used to shape the stones for the altar, were created at that time.
Hard times are coming, when we’ll be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now, can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies to other ways of being, and even imagine real grounds for hope. We’ll need writers who can remember freedom – poets, visionaries – realists of a larger reality.
[...] We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art. Very often in our art, the art of words.
Ursula Le Guin, speech to the National Book Awards, 2014
There’s something almost paradoxical in the style of Talmudic discussion: a seemingly small, practical matter can merit pages of complex discussion, whereas a cosmic leap from the rational and physical world into the miraculous is relegated to being one of many points in a list recited from memory.
In Pesachim 53b:11, the Gemara is entering a discussion about when to kindle a flame and bless that flame. Something that seems relatively straightforward: we know there are some days we shouldn’t kindle a flame, to mark the holiness of those days; we know there’s nothing wrong with lighting a flame other than on those days. But what about the liminal moment that separates the holy day from the everyday? How should we understand that moment? How do we mark it without infecting the sacred with the mundane? The liminal moment defies the expectation of a simple answer or binary distinction. There is not simply one state and another state, there is the state of separation itself which must be marked and considered. Hence the kindling of a flame in a ceremony of separation, הַבְדָּלָה, Havdalah, that is being articulated here - albeit in a somewhat different form than the one we might be familiar with today.
That discussion is taken up, perhaps never fully concluded, by Rabbis of several generations here. It almost results in a falling out among a group of Rabbis on a particularly dramatic donkey journey.
But despite the length and complexity of these arguments, something on a cosmic scale is all but thrown in - the idea that ‘the time of [fire’s] original creation is the conclusion of Shabbat’ - i.e., that God invented fire at the end of the very first Shabbat. The next Daf questions this assumption and draws up a list of miracles that are created in the twilight of Shabbat but don’t enter the world until later. Fire - something we use everyday, in countless forms - is just one of a list that includes animals gifted with speech, heavenly manna, the earth swallowing the wicked, and a worm that eats through stone.
That worm is the Shamir. Investigating the Shamir can send you down a range of strange paths - the discovery of an actual stone-eating worm in 2018; strange creatures engraved in late Medieval bestiaries; stories of a worm whose gaze, or blood, or presence could cause stone to change shape or melt away… None of that is in this section of Talmud. Just its name, part of a list of names, as something miraculous.
Elsewhere in the Talmud, the Shamir receives more attention. It’s the size of a barleycorn. Nothing hard can withstand it - so you have to wrap it up in soft things, tufts of wool, to keep hold of it. And, most significantly - it was used by Solomon to carve the stones of the temple. This meant he didn’t have to use iron cutting tools on the temple. He didn’t enact a violent separation, a splitting of stone with tools that resembled and acted like weapons. He had a creature that could allow him a paradox: to have a temple made of stones that were still whole, uncut, but that had been shaped to their purpose as part of this holy place.
What does it mean to call upon this kind of miracle? To enter the world of beings from myth and legend, of imaginary beings? How can something that defies rational understanding be used in a rational argument like this, and why?
Borges tells us that an imaginary being exists, and persists, because there is “something in the [being’s] image that fits man’s imagination”. These beings are, on some level, part of how we see the world. They are an aspect of our means of understanding or attempting to understand things outside of our immediate experience - that is, our imagination.
The science fiction writer Ursula Le Guin refers to a need for writers that are “realists of a larger reality”. It’s not enough to simply document the world that we see in front of us - that world is defined by elements that we need to actively resist, shape, change. For Le Guin, that’s where the need for imagination comes in. We need to “imagine real grounds for hope”. To “remember freedom.”
We need the whole stones to be shaped into something new in order to build the temple - but it’s not enough just to picture the shape we want them to have. We need to understand the liminal state, the process by which one thing becomes another. We need to understand the difference between violent stabs and slices and cuts and real transformation, and to imagine a means of achieving that transformation without that violence. If we can do that, we can see the miracle of the worm that eats stone and the miracle of a blessed fire, the miracle of distinguishing between the sacred and the secular, between light and dark.
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Images of the שמיר, ‘Ein Wurm der Stein frißt’ (a worm that eats stone).
Engravings from Eberhard Werner Happel, Relationes Curiosae, oder Denckwürdigkeiten der Welt, 1683-1691.