(14) If/When after you have entered the land that the LORD your God has assigned to you, and taken possession of it and settled in it, you [shall] say, “I will set a king over me, as do all the nations about me,” (15) you shall be free to set a king over yourself, one chosen by the LORD your God. Be sure to set as king over yourself one of your own people; you must not set a foreigner over you, one who is not your kinsman. (16) Moreover, he shall not keep many horses or send people back to Egypt to add to his horses, since the LORD has warned you, “You must not go back that way again.” (17) And he shall not have many wives, lest his heart go astray; nor shall he amass silver and gold to excess. (18) When he is seated on his royal throne, he shall have a copy of this Teaching written for him on a scroll by the levitical priests. (19) Let it remain with him and let him read in it all his life, so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God, to observe faithfully every word of this Teaching as well as these laws.
~ Why are those limits imposed on the king, according to the text? And according to you?
~ What are the consequences of understanding "ki" as "if" and as "when"?
(1) When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons judges over Israel. (2) The name of his first-born son was Joel, and his second son’s name was Abijah; they sat as judges in Beer-sheba. (3) But his sons did not follow in his ways; they were bent on gain, they accepted bribes, and they subverted justice. (4) All the elders of Israel assembled and came to Samuel at Ramah, (5) and they said to him, “You have grown old, and your sons have not followed your ways, now, appoint a king for us, to judge us like all other nations.” (6) Samuel was displeased that they said “Give us a king to judge us.” Samuel prayed to the LORD, (7) and the LORD replied to Samuel, “Heed the demand of the people in everything they say to you. For it is not you that they have rejected; it is Me they have rejected as their king. (8) Like everything else they have done ever since I brought them out of Egypt to this day—forsaking Me and worshiping other gods—so they are doing to you. (9) Heed their demand; but warn them solemnly, and tell them about the practices of any king who will rule over them.” (10) Samuel reported all the words of the LORD to the people, who were asking him for a king. (11) He said, “This will be the practice of the king who will rule over you: He will take your sons and appoint them as his charioteers and horsemen, and they will serve as outrunners for his chariots. (12) He will appoint them as his chiefs of thousands and of fifties; or they will have to plow his fields, reap his harvest, and make his weapons and the equipment for his chariots. (13) He will take your daughters as perfumers, cooks, and bakers. (14) He will seize your choice fields, vineyards, and olive groves, and give them to his courtiers. (15) He will take a tenth part of your grain and vintage and give it to his eunuchs and courtiers. (16) He will take your male and female slaves, your choice young men, and your asses, and put them to work for him. (17) He will take a tenth part of your flocks, and you shall become his slaves. (18) The day will come when you cry out because of the king whom you yourselves have chosen; and the LORD will not answer you on that day.” (19) But the people would not listen to Samuel’s warning. “No,” they said. “We must have a king over us, (20) that we may be like all the other nations: Let our king rule over us and go out at our head and fight our battles.” (21) When Samuel heard all that the people said, he reported it to the LORD. (22) And the LORD said to Samuel, “Heed their demands and appoint a king for them.” Samuel then said to the men of Israel, “All of you go home.”
~ Why do the people want a king?
~ Why does Shmuel refuse?
~ What do you know about the first kings, ie, Shaul, David and Shlomo?
~ Is it a mitzvah to have a king, according to the Talmud?
ואמרת אשימה עלי מלך על דעת רבותינו (ספרי ראה סז, סנהדרין כ א) כמו ואמור אשימה עלי מלך, והיא מצות עשה, שיחייב אותנו לומר כן אחר ירושה וישיבה, כלשון (דברים כב ח): ועשית מעקה לגגך וזולתם. והזכיר ואמרת, כי מצוה שיבואו לפני הכהנים הלוים ואל השופט, ויאמרו להם 'רצוננו שנשים עלינו מלך'. ולפי דעתי עוד, שגם זה מרמיזותיו על העתידות, שכן היה כששאלו להם את שאול, אמרו לשמואל (שמואל א ח ה): "שימה לנו מלך לשפטנו ככל הגוים", וכן כתוב שם (שמואל א ח כ): "והיינו גם אנחנו ככל הגוים ושפטנו מלכנו וגו'", כי מה טעם שתאמר התורה במצוה ככל הגוים אשר סביבותי, ואין ישראל ראויים ללמד מהם ולא לקנא בעושי עולה! אבל זה רמז לענין שיהיה, ולכך באה הפרשה בלשון הבינוני, כאשר פירשתי כבר.
And you [shall] say 'I will set a king over me' according to our rabbis (Sifri 67, Sanhedrin 20b) this is a positive commandment which obligates us to say this after inheriting and settling in the land, just as the phrase "And you shall make a parapet on your roof" (Deut. 22:8) and others. And the text uses 'say' because the mitzvah is that they shall come to the Levite priests and the judge and they should say 'it is our will to set a king over ourselves'. And in my humble opinion this is also a hint to the future generations, since it was when they asked for Shaul, they said to Shmuel: 'Appoint a king over us to judge us like all the other nations' (I Samuel 8:5), and so it is also written 'and we will be like the other nations, and our king will judge us' (I Samuel 8:20). And why would the Torah say in this mitzvah "like all the nations around me", and Israel is not permitted to learn from them nor to envy their deeds! But this is a hint of an issue in the future, and this is why this part comes in 'lashon havinoni' [language that implies a Divine assurance about future generations] as I explained elsewhere.
~ Ramban: Rabbi Moshe ben Nachman (1194, Girona, Spain - 1270, Akko, Israel)
~ How does the Ramban understand the wording of the expression 'veamarta'? What is his conclusion?
~ How does he understand this language? What does 'Divine assurance' mean, to you?
~ The same ‘it’s a mitzvah’ position is found in the Rambam, the Sefer Mitzvot HaGadol, the Sefer HaChinuch and others.
~ Does the Netziv (Rabbi Naftali Yehuda Berlin; 1816 Mir, Russia – 10 August 1893, Warsaw, Poland) understand this to be a commandment? How does he defend his opinion? What is the most important aspect in the question of a king, in his comments?
~ The same ‘it’s a permission’ stance is found in the Abarbanel (Isaac ben Judah Abarbanel, 1437, Lisbon, Portugal - 1508, Venice, Italy), the Sforno (Rabbi Ovadiah ben Jacob Sforno, 1475, Cesena, Italy - 1550, Bologna, Italy). The Alshich (Rabbi Moshe Alshich 1508, Turkey - 1593, Safed, Israel) goes so far to say that if the people do not request a king, it is actually a transgression to force them to have a king.
~ How close does Shlomo go to do what the prophet had warned the Israelites against?
~ What about David?
~ What about Sha'ul?
~ How many kings did the people of Israel have, counting both North and South kingdoms? [42]