Dairy Dessert And Turkey Grown in a Lab

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/22/humans-have-changed-industrial-turkeys-so-much-they-cant-even-mate-without-our-help/

Humans have changed industrial turkeys so much they can’t even mate without our help.

Is turkey made, manufactured, or grown in a lab kosher?

Do we grow turkey like we grow other edibles?

Can we say that about meat "outside" of a body of an animal?

Process

In broad terms, the stages involved in the production of clean meat are:

1. The extraction of stem cells from an animal (or the extraction and conversion of other cells to pluripotent cells - Pluripotent stem cells are cells that have the capacity to self-renew by dividing and to develop into the three primary germ cell layers of the early embryo and therefore into all cells of the adult body, but not extra-embryonic tissues such as the placenta.

2. Multiplication/Proliferation of the cells in a suitable medium,

3. Differentiation of the cells into muscle cells (and possibly other cell types that
are typically found in “natural meat”), and their growth via scaffolding. Stem cells are often used in the production of clean meat as they offer two enormous advantages over other cells, namely their ability to multiply/thrive, and their ability to differentiate into various cell types.

Is that turkey kosher? meat, or PARVE?! If it was lab-grown and parve no problem! Go for that dairy dessert.

But....

Is lab-grown fowl fair play? or - a Foul (butter)ball?

If it is kosher doesn't it stay in the meat category? or is it parve (through svara)?

Now onto where science and Jewish law and the Jewish People (and food) meet...

A clean-meat revolution is cooking in Israel (Source: Israel 21C)

Global researchers, NGOs and meat industry leaders gather in Haifa to strategize mass production of cultured meat and learn about Israeli advances.

By Abigail Klein Leichman MAY 16, 2017

Would you pay $1,000 for a meatball? How about $18,000 per pound of ground beef?

That’s the cost of today’s prototype cultured meat (also called “clean meat”) produced in bioreactors from animal cells. Real meat made without slaughter and without fast-dwindling pastureland will make it to the dinner table only if it’s affordable.

Strategies to reach this goal were discussed at a May 7 gathering in Israel of top-tier researchers, government officials, NGOs and leaders of the cultured and conventional meat industries from Israel, North America and Europe.

Held at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa by the Israeli nonprofit Modern Agriculture Foundation (MAF) with sponsors including the US-based Good Food Institute, Future Meating was the first international conference to attract such a broad spectrum, MAF Director Yaron Bogin tells ISRAEL21c.

Even large meat processors Tyson Foods (US) and Soglowek Food Group (Israel) were represented due to their interest in expanding their lineup of more humane and earth-friendly sources of animal protein...

From: Rabbi Daniel Nevins CJLS YD 81.2017 The Kashrut of Cultured Meat

Question: May cultured meat—also known as in vitro, clean or lab-grown meat—be considered kosher?

Response: In the summer of 2013, Dr. Mark J. Post, a medical researcher at Maastricht University in the Netherlands, made headlines by presenting the world's first hamburger made of “cultured meat,” a product developed in a lab from a sample of skeletal stem cells taken from a live cow. Dubbed the “$325,000 Burger,” this product clearly was not close to reaching market, yet as a proof of principle, it dramatized the potential of cultured meat, which had been discussed for many decades. By 2016 companies such as Memphis Meats had announced their intention to bring “clean meat” to market within five years, and an Israeli start-up called SuperMeat claimed to be close to producing kosher cultured chicken.4 In May, 2017 Technion University in Haifa hosted a conference called “Future Meating,” dedicated to clearing the path to the commercialization of cultured meat....

...our halakhic concerns will focus on production methods, specifically questions such as the species of animal used as a source of cells to culture meat, the prohibition of removing a limb or even flesh from a living animal, the kashrut of ingredients used in the growth medium and as additives for flavor, texture and shelf-life, and the ritual valence of the final product—whether it should be considered to be “meat” in halakhic terms, or rather neutral (pareve).

On the meta-level, these questions all point to a broader one of identity transmission. To what extent do subsequent generations of a cell line inherit the qualities of their genetic ancestors? We are accustomed to viewing biological organisms as related to their ancestors and yet also as distinct entities that are shaped by their environment. This is even more true on the cellular level.

The field of epigenetics has demonstrated that environmental factors play an enormous role in gene expression; viruses may alter an organism’s DNA over the course of one generation. The cellular modifications at play with cultured meat are prodigious, with transformations between stem and differentiated states changing the structure of the units. Indeed, cells altered in a lab environment may not be recognizable to the original animal’s immune system. We must remain cognizant of this reality when considering whether subsequent generations of cells should be assigned the halakhic attributes of the first cells taken from a live specimen. Let us begin our halakhic inquiry with the source—must the original cells used to produce cultured meat come from a kosher animal?

From Hakira, Volume 24

The process

The technical methods have yet to be published in peer review articles, but here is a general description of the type of process that various companies that are developing these technologies would use to turn muscle precursor cells into meat fit for consumption. Briefly, this process begins by carefully removing muscle tissue from a living cow’s neck muscle via a small syringe without harming the animal. Muscle precursor cells, such as myosatellite cells, are then separated from the other cells in the tissue sample and grown in vitro in a bio-reactor.

For the meat that is grown in a bio-reactor or incubator or petri dish or test-tube to be kosher must the original cell be from a kosher animal?

How many cells are needed to start the growth? Is it kosher to harvest it, or them?

And might we be able to nullify the original cell, if it is "treif - torn from an animal" and deem the meat "new" or a by-product or growth beyond the original and PERMIT the resulting meat? [גידולים]

The Status of a Cell Separated from a Live, Kosher Animal

Does the cell fall into the category of treif - torn from an animal (even a permitted one)?

There is a surprising line of rabbinic thought that were it not for explicit biblical permission to drink milk and eat eggs, these products of live animals would be forbidden under the rubric of the limb ban. They, and only they, are biological products permitted for consumption even when collected from live animals. As such, eating cells removed from a live animal would clearly violate the limb ban, though if the quantity remained below the threshold of an olive’s bulk, the ban might be reduced to a rabbinic level. Rabbi Zvi Ryzman completely dismisses the prohibition of החי מן בשר” ,flesh from a living animal” because, he notes, the targeted cells are stem cells, not muscle tissue. He points to the famous statement in b. Yevamot 69b that during the first forty days of gestation, a human fetus is considered בעלמא מיא ,as “simply water,” a classification which is cited in several modern responsa to permit early-term abortions even in non-life-threatening circumstances.

Rabbi Ryzman then argues that the stem cells taken by biopsy from a cow or other animal permitted for kosher consumption in order to culture meat are comparable to the cells found in an early term human fetus. On this basis he claims that stem cells are not considered “alive” but rather, “just water,” and thus not “flesh” that could trigger either the limb ban or the flesh ban. He concludes, על כן נראה שתא הנלקח מבהמה טהורה אינו נחשב ל"אבר מן החי" או ל"בשר מן החי," שכן הוא "מיא בעלמא" ואינו אבר או בשר. Therefore it appears that a cell taken from a pure animal is not considered to be “a limb from a living animal” or “flesh from a living animal,” for it is actually “just water,” and is not a limb or flesh.

While a human fetus before 40 days may be largely unformed, and is indeed not considered by halakhah to be an independent life until birth, the cow from which stem cells are harvested is very much alive in the world. Moreover, when technicians take a biopsy from an animal, they remove many types of cells at once, not only stem cells, and only later isolate them. The stem cells taken are mature, not embryonic.38 Indeed, it is not evident that cultured meat may be developed only from stem cells. Other types of cells, including fibroblasts, may be used as the foundation for the growth of the trillions of cells required to produce an edible form of meat...

Rather, another approach seems preferable. It is forbidden to eat even a minute amount of flesh taken from a living animal, but with cultured meat, there is no intention to consume the source cells themselves. The act of “eating” is said to involve גרון הנאת ,pleasure in the throat, 40 but these cells will never be placed in a human throat, and would be undetectable if they were. They certainly do not meet the halakhically significant threshold of טעם נותן ,giving flavor.

Could we say that the tissue or cell is a part of the animal that would be considered יוצא and thusly be PARVE?

from CJLS t'shuvah

The first step in creating cultured meat is to collect a sample of stem cells from a living animal; these cells are manipulated in a lab setting called a bioreactor to induce proliferation. They are then coaxed into differentiating to form muscle fibers and are subjected to tension in order to develop into tissue that can be layered into meat.11 Living cells may also be harvested immediately after (kosher) slaughter, which would have halakhic implications...

Because the resultant “edible biomass,” or meat will never have been part of an animal, the established signs of kosher species (split hooves and rumination for mammals; fins and scales for fish; traditional identification of birds) will not be observed. However, the harvested cells may be compared to eggs and milk which are collected from a fully formed specimen and inherit the species status of their source.

True, the harvested cells are microscopic and are not edible in the normal sense. Still, the comparison to eggs is apt given that yolks are essentially large cells produced by a live animal which may be fertilized for the sake of reproduction, eaten, or put to some other use. The stem cells mined from a live animal likewise have the capacity to be used in any of these ways, albeit with significant technological assistance.

[EGGS = PARVE!!]

From Headlines article, "A Kosher Cheeseburger?" Dovid Lichtenstein

Lichtenstein explores the question of whether a lab-grown burger is meat or parve.

Rabbi Aharon Kotler (Mishnas Rabbi Aharon 16) concerning the status of extraneous parts of an animal quotes the Rambam.

The Rambam (Hilchot Ma'achalot Asurot - Forbidden Foods 4:18) rules that is is forbidden to eat the skin, bones, sinews, horns or hooves of a forbidden animal (whether it belongs to a non-kosher species, was not properly slaughtered or is a treifa). But, one is not liable to Malkot for this violation. [meaning one COULD eat the skin, bones, sinews, horns or hooves of a permitted animal....but are they "meat?"]

Rav Aharon explains that these parts are forbidden because they are considered יוצא מן האסור....[so they would be permitted if they are יוצא מהמותר]

...Clearly, then, substances taken from an animal are not included in the catergories of basar v'chalav, as they are not considered actual meat. Rav Aharon applies this conclusion to the case of gelatin produced from the skin and bones of kosher, properly slaughtered animals, ruling that this product should be treated as parve, since it falls under the category of יוצא rather than בשר. [And such gelatin could be used as part of the scaffolding of lab-produced meat from stem cells, if you don't hold that taking stem cells from a permitted animal while it's alive is a violation! We'll get to that question below when we examine whether or not taking a stem cell (even with a syringe) is eating a "limb from a living animal."]

And if gelatin were the medium (the only medium?) in which the "meat" was grown wouldn't it mean the meat was parve, because both the gelatin and the cell - both יוצא מן המותר and do not fall into the categories of meat and milk!?

Science News

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/new-spin-lab-grown-meat

A New Spin on Lab-Grown Meat

A technique akin to spinning cotton candy could help grow chewy meat outside an animal

By Carolyn Wilke

December 3, 2019

Growing meat in a lab could mean using fewer animals and lowering the environmental costs associated with raising livestock. It takes a lot of land and water to grow animals. Also, “we all like animals, but we like to eat meat too,” says Luke MacQueen. He’s a tissue engineer at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass. Move the process outside of animals, and scientists could grow only the meat parts they want, he says.

Researchers already know how to grow cells, the basis of meat. However, a pile of cells doesn’t have the chewy texture of a chicken breast. Cells without a support are more like a soup, or at best a meatball. So MacQueen and his team developed a way to make a scaffold to support their growing cells.

The new process resembles the way cotton candy is spun, except that it uses gelatin instead of melted sugar. The scientists spin the gelatin-containing solution to make tiny fibers. When the sopping strings hit a bath of ethanol, a type of alcohol, they lose their water and dry out.

Then the scientists add stem cells — a special type of immature cell — that will develop into muscle cells. The team uses stem cells that become either cow or rabbit muscle. As they grow, these cells work their way into the edible gelatin scaffold.

The scientists grew tissue squares that were roughly 6.5 square centimeters (1 square inch) in area and a millimeter (0.04 inch) thick. They used a slew of techniques to image the chunks and study their properties. The team then compared their lab-grown rabbit and bovine tissue, after one to three weeks of growth, to meat from animals: bacon, prosciutto, beef tenderloin and more.

The lab-grown samples all looked like the natural meats, MacQueen says. And they had similar materials properties too. Those traits affect how chewy, springy or soft the tissue is. By controlling how the gelatin fibers had been spun, the scientists could set the fibers’ alignment and spacing. That determined if the tissue ended up more like a burger or a steak.

Spun gelatin fibers that scientists use as a support to grow animal cells (top two images) look similar in size to real muscle from a rabbit leg (bottom two images).

HARVARD UNIVERSITY

From Lichtenstein:

...[those items that are יוצא] bear no resemblance to meat, and it is therefore clearly understood why they would not fall under the halachic category of בשר. However, meat produced from stem cells has the same physical and chemical properties as meat, and this resemblance might require treating it is בשר. The cell itself integrated into the new mass is all meat.

But since the new mass of matter which looks and tastes and behaves like meat was never inside an animal could we rule that the substance is, like gelatin, new, and the one cell from which it was expressed is now batel - nullified [as meat] in a mass 60x its mass or more?

Another route:

Haifa chief rabbi Sha’ar Yashuv Cohen discusses the use of a wheat-based medium to grow mushrooms—could the mushrooms be considered as kosher for Passover?65 He notes that in general, forbidden foods convey their prohibition to subsequent substances, unless there is a חידוש ,novel permission implied by the Torah itself.66 This is not the case here, but if the medium had been formulated before Passover, then the substance was not initially forbidden, and its products would not inherit a forbidden status. However, if the wheat-based product were indeed rendered hametz, would the mushrooms that were nourished by it also be forbidden? Or, could we say that the biochemical process of breaking down the growth medium effectively creates a new substance? Rabbi Cohen compares this question to the status of an animal endowed with a gland that produces a fragrance that may be burned as incense, or even added to flavor food. The medieval sages concluded that this substance may be eaten, since the “blood” of the animal has been transformed by the animal itself into a permitted fragrance. 67 Rabbi Cohen concludes: לפי זה לכאורה החמץ שנאכל ע"י פטריה ונפלט, הוא בודאי כבר חומר אחר, הר"ז לכאורה לא יותר גרוע מאשר דם שנאכל ע"י גוף של בעל חי והפך לבושם, ואזי יתכן שאפשר להתיר אותו. Accordingly, the hametz that has been consumed by the mushroom and then secreted is certainly already a different substance. This is apparently no less so than the case of blood consumed by the body of an animal that is transformed into a fragrance, and thus it is possible to permit it. Rabbi Cohen concludes his article by sharing that a corn-based alternative medium was identified, allowing his finding to go unimplemented. Having consulted with the great authorities of his time, however, he asserts that even the wheat-based medium would have been permitted

What about the growth medium?

What else is used in nurturing the development of the new biomass?

Basically, once you’ve harvested the cells you want to turn into a piece of meat, you grow them in a series of tanks. The first one, called a cell proliferation bioreactor, simply allows the cells to multiply until there are enough to use. The bioreactor also contains a cell culture medium, made up of salts, proteins, fats, sugars, vitamins and other nutrients and substances that help cells grow. In most labs it has also usually included serum—blood from which the cells and the clotting factors have been removed.

Ami Magazine, Nov. 15, 2017

Such culture media pose significant Kashrus concerns based on the source of their components, as well as concerns of mixing milk and meat (Ba’sar b’Cholov). Whenever non-Kosher meat, casein, or proteolytic agents are used, cultures grown on such media are generally not considered Kosher.

In general the use of non-Kosher ingredients at any stage of the culture propagation would compromise its Kosher status, a status that would be retained in all subsequent generations of growth (as noted previously, concerning propagation of cultures from fermented). For cases in which both Kosher and non-Kosher ingredients were included in the growth media, however, the Kosher status of the culture may not be compromised. The intentional use of such media, however, is not permitted. (classically)

-- Zushe Blech, Kosher Food Production, p 103

What if we said that the stem cell(s) could be בטל? [halakhically nullified?]

Would that make the new mass of lab-grown meat permissible and parve?

The status of non kosher meat at a microscopic level

If the Stem Cell comes from non-kosher material:

The stem cell that is used to produce the meat is microscopic. Ordinarily, non-kosher items are insignificant. For example, as R. Yechiel M. Epstein (1829-1908) and many others note, insects that are not visible to the naked eye are of no concern. Does that mean that we don’t have to be concerned about the source of the meat?

R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (1910-1995), in discussing genetic engineering, writes that if the item is handled on a microscopic level (מטפלים בו), then the fact that it is microscopic is not a reason to ignore it and we go along with this.

What is the status of an item that is a derivative of a non-kosher animal?

The Mishna states if a non-kosher animal gave birth to a kosher animal or vice versa, the child has the same status as the parent ( Bechorot 5)

There are numerous discussions about using the concept of ze veze gorem

Food produced by materials that are forbidden are themselves forbidden since it is like one is benefitting from the original prohibition. When there are two contributing factors to the product, one that is forbidden and one that is permitted, it is called zeh v'zeh gorem

So if non-kosher cells were grown in a kosher environment where kosher additives were added, you might have one cancel the other one out -

Rabbi David Bleich (shlita) suggests that even if the original stem cells are not kosher, if they are grown in a kosher medium that also provides nutrients to the resultant lab-grown-meat, we might be able to employ זה וזה גורם.

Rabbi Nevins:

Moreover, we have the oft-cited argument of Rabbi Yehiel Mikhel Epstein (1829-1908), author of Arukh Ha’Shulhan, regarding the kashrut implications of microscopic organisms that are prevalent in rainwater and in the air. He concludes, שולטת העין שאין במה תורה אסרה דלא הוא האמת למלאכים תורה ניתנה דלא בו” ,In truth, the Torah did not forbid anything that the [naked] eye cannot perceive, for the Torah was not given to angels….”44 If a stem cell taken from the original animal makes it to the final consumer product, blended in with trillions of new cells, it will be impossible to identify, impossible to taste, and of no halakhic consequence to the consumer, for whom it would be as undetectable as any microscopic organisms found in food. 45 However, we ought not rely on Rabbi Epstein’s argument altogether to dismiss the significance of the original biopsied cells. His exclusion was focused on the unavoidable ingestion of microscopic organisms when drinking water and breathing air, not on the expert manipulation of cells by scientists in the lab (a distinction first made by Rabbi Auerbach). 46 Those cells, harvested from a living animal, derive their species identity from that animal, whether they are fertilized and bred into a full specimen, or cultured to develop a mere component such as muscle tissue. There will be no kosher pork chop.

.....

A broadspectrum declaration that nothing microscopic has halakhic significance is counter-intuitive and counterproductive in an era when scientists regularly work on this level. Even if a formalistic halakhic approach might set aside the significance of these stem cells, a values-informed approach such as mine will take them, their source, and their destiny seriously. If the microscopic realm were to be declared beyond the jurisdiction of halakhah, then many of humanity’s most consequential decisions would be denied the insights of our ancient and profound tradition.

To conclude this section, the easiest argument for inherited identity relates to species status. Germline cells from a species convey the same qualities to their genetic heirs, even with the mutations that attend all reproduction. The DNA is like a sustaining substance, and the species identity is reproduced at the cellular level. Culturally too we recognize later generations of plants and animals as belonging to the same species even with the minor variations that are readily observed. However, it is less coherent to claim that later generations of cells should inherit the ritual status of “torn meat” (טריפה (from their source cells, which themselves have long since perished. The later generations of cells never were connected to a living animal, even as later generations of plants were not part of the original physical plant. In other words, cells that are cultured over time to produce beef remain identified with the same species of cow, but not with the experience of the specific cow or cows from which they ultimately derived, just as ears of barley lose the ritual tithing status of earlier generations, while remaining barley.

More on the Kashrut of Turkey

https://www.kashrut.com/articles/turk_part5/https://

www.myjewishlearning.com/article/traditions-and-counter-traditions/

What about the TURKEY?

https://www.kashrut.com/articles/turk_part5/ IS TURKEY KOSHER?

chabad.org Is Turkey Kosher

NPR.org Is Turkey Kosher

My Jewish Learning "The Great Kosher Turkey Debate" (Ok, I added "great")

Jewish Week / Times of Israel - Is Turkey Kosher?

Tablet - Thanksgiving Without Turkey

AND, if it is kosher, is turkey grown in a lab MEAT or PARVE?!

On CRSPR tech:

It is possible that a gene editing technology such as CRISPR-Cas9 will be employed to modify the DNA of the harvested cells. This could be done to increase yield by modification of the myostatin gene (whose mutation leads to a condition called “double muscling”),54 or perhaps to augment the nutritional content of the meat. The halakhic concept of a “novel entity,” חדש דבר is usually applied to a substance that has passed through an inedible state, but in this case the product would be modified at the genetic level, so that the descendant cells might arguably be deemed a new substance.55 However, single-gene modifications do not suffice to change the species identity of the organism. Further, Mark Post says that sensitivities about GMOs, which are heightened in Europe, argue against the use of gene editing of the cells.56

Do the original cells maintain their meat status?

Rabbi Ariel argues that while seeds of grain depend on other factors such as the soil and its nutrients to grow, and thus lose their identity by the third generation, the cells of cultured meat depend entirely on the source cells, and thus later generations are undiminished in their inheritance. But this is patently false—without receiving nutrients in the lab, the cultured meat will never reproduce. Rabbi Ze’ev Weitman critiques Rabbi Ariel, arguing that stem cells in their growth medium are precisely like seeds planted in the ground: ולכאורה נראה, שהדברים כן דומים, שהרי בדיוק כמו שהאדמה מספקת לצמח את חומרי המזון הדרושים לו כדי להתפתח ולגדול כך בדיוק קורה גם בבשר המתורבת – שם הגידול וההתפתחות מתאפשרים הודות לחומרים המותרים שמזינים את התא ומשמשים לו מצע גידול, ואם הצמח שגדל ומתפתח מהזרע נחשב לפנים חדשות 58 הרי נראה שהוא הדין גם הבשר הגדל ומתפתח מהתא יכול להיחשב כפנים חדשות. However, it appears that the matters are indeed comparable, for just as the earth provides a plant with the nutrients needed for it to grow and develop, exactly so with cultured meat—there the growth and development are made possible due to the materials that nourish the cell and serve it as a growth platform. And if a plant which grows and develops from a seed is considered to be a new entity (lit. new face) it would appear that so too meat which grows and develops from a cell may be considered like a new entity.

Rabbi Weitman is correct in drawing a more direct comparison between the cells of cultured meat and plants grown from seeds of tithed or untithed produce. The source cells alone cannot reproduce to create the descendant product. We may apply to them the halakhic 58 הרב זאב וייטמן, בשר מתורבת, תחומין כרך לו, ע' 459. R’ Danny Nevins, Kashrut of Cultured Meat, Approved, November 14, 2017 Page 20 principle גורם וזה זה ,both factors are necessary—for the new cells to grow, and thus even if one element is forbidden, this ban is not conveyed to the end-product.59

PARVE? And then Pumpkin Pie?!

An additional unusual “precedent” comes from the realm of rabbinic legend rather than halakhic sources, though the boundaries between the two are not always discernible. Most articles in the Jewish press on the halakhic possibilities of cultured meat mention two Talmudic legends involving miraculous meat.77 In b. Sanhedrin 59b, a story is told of the sage Rabbi Shimon b. Halafta who, while walking on his way, was attacked by lions. He prayed for assistance, and two beasts fell from the sky. One was eaten by the lions, but Rabbi Shimon was able to collect the second and bring it to the Beit Midrash, where he raised the question of its kashrut. The answer was: nothing impure comes from heaven. 78 In another rabbinic legend at b. Sanhedrin 67a, Rabbi Hanina and Rabbi Oshaya were studying the mystical Book of Creation ( ספר יצירה (and magically managed to create a third-grown calf.79 The Talmud itself does not seem interested in the halakhic implications of this miracle meat. Does the animal require kosher slaughter? Is its flesh even considered meat? The implication is that this meat is kosher, but is it meaty? Rabbi Ryzman cites the Torah commentary of Rabbi Isaiah Horowitz (ה"של (to Genesis 37:2, 80 as well as that of Rabbi Meir Leibush b"r Yehiel Michel Weiser (ם"מלבי (to Gen. 18:7 in light of the story of Rabbi Hanina and Rabbi Oshaya (Rabbi Bleich also focuses on this text). Malbim states that meat created from the Book of Creation is not like meat cut from an animal, and it may be eaten with milk. This is his explanation of how Abraham was able to offer meat and milk to his angelic visitors in Gen. 18—it was not natural meat, but “miracle meat.”