The Oral Talmud with Benay Lappe and Dan Libenson Episode 187

אָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל:

שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים נֶחְלְקוּ בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּבֵית הִלֵּל, הַלָּלוּ אוֹמְרִים: הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתֵנוּ, וְהַלָּלוּ אוֹמְרִים: הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתֵנוּ. יָצְאָה בַּת קוֹל וְאָמְרָה: אֵלּוּ וָאֵלּוּ דִּבְרֵי אֱלֹהִים חַיִּים הֵן, וַהֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל.

וְכִי מֵאַחַר שֶׁאֵלּוּ וָאֵלּוּ דִּבְרֵי אֱלֹהִים חַיִּים, מִפְּנֵי מָה זָכוּ בֵּית הִלֵּל לִקְבּוֹעַ הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתָן?

מִפְּנֵי שֶׁנּוֹחִין וַעֲלוּבִין הָיוּ, וְשׁוֹנִין דִּבְרֵיהֶן וְדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי, וְלֹא עוֹד אֶלָּא שֶׁמַּקְדִּימִין דִּבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי לְדִבְרֵיהֶן.

Rabbi Abba said that Shmuel said:

For three years the School of Shammai and the School of Hillel were divided -- these saying our way is the Jewish way, and these said our way is the Jewish way. A Divine Voice emerged and proclaimed: "These and those are the words of God -- they are alive! And the Jewish way follows the School of Hillel."

But, given that these and those are the living words of God, for what reason did the School of Hillel get to have their way established as the Jewish way?

Because they adopted a stance of readiness-to-change and willingness-to-be-humiliated, and they would study their own words and the words of the School of Shammai -- and, not only that, but also they would give precedence to the words of the School of Shammai over their own words.

אָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים נֶחְלְקוּ בֵּית שַׁמַּאי וּבֵית הִלֵּל, הַלָּלוּ אוֹמְרִים: הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתֵנוּ, וְהַלָּלוּ אוֹמְרִים: הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתֵנוּ. יָצְאָה בַּת קוֹל וְאָמְרָה: אֵלּוּ וָאֵלּוּ דִּבְרֵי אֱלֹהִים חַיִּים הֵן, וַהֲלָכָה כְּבֵית הִלֵּל. וְכִי מֵאַחַר שֶׁאֵלּוּ וָאֵלּוּ דִּבְרֵי אֱלֹהִים חַיִּים, מִפְּנֵי מָה זָכוּ בֵּית הִלֵּל לִקְבּוֹעַ הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתָן? מִפְּנֵי שֶׁנּוֹחִין וַעֲלוּבִין הָיוּ, וְשׁוֹנִין דִּבְרֵיהֶן וְדִבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי, וְלֹא עוֹד אֶלָּא שֶׁמַּקְדִּימִין דִּבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי לְדִבְרֵיהֶן.

Rabbi Abba said that Shmuel said: For three years Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel disagreed. These said: The halakha is in accordance with our opinion, and these said: The halakha is in accordance with our opinion. Ultimately, a Divine Voice emerged and proclaimed: Both these and those are the words of The Living God [or the living words of God]. However, the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel. The Gemara asks: Since both these and those are the words of the living God, why were Beit Hillel privileged to have the halakha established in accordance with their opinion? The reason is that they were agreeable and forbearing, showing restraint when affronted, and when they taught the halakha they would teach both their own statements and the statements of Beit Shammai. Moreover, when they formulated their teachings and cited a dispute, they prioritized the statements of Beit Shammai to their own statements, in deference to Beit Shammai.


משנה: מִי שֶׁהָיָה רֹאשׁוֹ וְרוֹבּוֹ בַסּוּכָּה וְשׁוּלְחָנוֹ בְתוֹךְ הַבַּיִת בֵּית שַׁמַּאי פּוֹסְלִין וּבֵית הִלֵּל מַכְשִׁירִין. אָֽמְרוּ בֵית הִלֵּל לְבֵית שַׁמַּאי מַעֲשֶׂה שֶׁהָֽלְכוּ זִקְנֵי בֵית שַׁמַּאי וְזִקְנֵי בֵית הִלֵּל לְבַקֵּר אֶת יוֹחָנָן בֶּן הַחוֹרוֹנִי וּמְצָאוּהוּ רֹאשׁוֹ וְרוּבּוֹ בַסּוּכָּה וְשׁוּלְחָנוֹ בְתוֹךְ הַבַּיִת. אָֽמְרוּ לָהֶן בֵּית שַׁמַּאי מִשָּׁם רְאָייָה. אַף הֵן אָֽמְרוּ לוֹ אִם כֵּן הָיִיתָ נוֹהֵג לֹא קִייַמְתָּ מִצְוַת סוּכָּה מִיָּמֶיךָ:
MISHNAH: If a person’s head and most of his body was in the sukkah but his table inside the house, the House of Shammai declare it disqualified but the House of Hillel qualified. The House of Hillel said to the House of Shammai, it happened that the elders of the House of Shammai and the House of Hillel went to visit Joḥanan from Hauran and found him with his head and most of his body in the sukkah but his table inside the house. The House of Shammai answered them, is this a proof? They said to him, if you are used to do this, you never in your life did fulfill the obligation of sukkah.
הלכה: לֹא סוֹף דָּבָר שׁוּלְחָנוֹ. אֶלָּא אֲפִילוּ כְדֵי שׁוּלְחָנוֹ. כַּמָּה הוּא כְדֵי שׁוּלְחָנוֹ. טֶפַח.
HALAKHAH: Not only his table, but even a place for his table. How much is a place for his table? A hand-breadth.
רִבִּי יוּדָה בַּר פָּזִי וְרִבִּי אַייְבוֹ בַּר נַגָּרִי הֲווֹן יִתִיבִין. אָֽמְרִין. תַּנִּינָן. אַחַר שֶׁהוֹדוּ. מִי הוֹדֶה לְמִי. בֵּית שַׁמַּי לְבֵית הִלֵּל [אוֹ] בֵית הִלֵּל לְבֵית שַׁמַּי. אָֽמְרִין. נֵצֵא לַחוּץ וְנִלְמוֹד. וְנָֽפְקִין וְשָֽׁמְעוּן. רִבִּי חִזְקִיָּה רִבִּי אָחָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוּדָה בֶּן לֵוִי. לֹא מָצָאנוּ שֶׁהוֹדוּ בֵית (הִלֵּל) [שַׁמַּי] לְבֵית (שַׁמַּי) [הִלֵּל] אֶלָּא בְדָבָר זֶה בִלְבַד. רִבִּי חוּנָה בְשֵׁם רַב אַבַּייָא. מַתְנִיתָא אָֽמְרָה כֵן. הַמְעָרֶה מִכְּלִי לִכְלִי וְנָגַע טְבוּל יוֹם בַּקִּילּוּחַ. אִם יֶשׁ בּוֹ יַעֲלֶה בְּאֶחָד וּמֵאָה: אִין תֵּימַר. בֵּית הִלֵּל הוֹדוּ לְבֵית שַׁמַּי שֶׁלֹּא תַעֲלֶה. מָאן תַּנָּא הָכָא תַעֲלֶה. לֹא בֵית הִלֵּל [וַלֹא] (לְ)בֵית שַׁמַּי. אָמַר רִבִּי אִידִי. נֹאמַר. בֵּית הִלֵּל שָׁנוּ אוֹתָהּ עַד שֶׁלֹּא הוֹדוּ לָהֶם בֵּית שַׁמַּי. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹסֵה. מַתְנִיתָא אָֽמְרָה כֵן. אַחַר שֶׁהוֹדוּ. רַבִּי לִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר. תֵּירוֹם וְתִישָּרֵף. וְרִבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר לָאו שַׁמּוּתִי הוּא. אָמַר רִבִּי חִינָנָא. מַתְנִיתָא אָֽמְרָה כֵן. אַחַר שֶׁהוֹדוּ אֵילּוּ לָאֵילּוּ תַעֲלֶה. בֵּית שַׁמַּי מְסַלְּקִין לוֹן. וְאִינּוּן מוֹדֵיי לוֹן. אָמַר רִבִּי אָבוּן. תָּשׁוּבָה אֲחֶרֶת יֵשׂ כָּאן. כְּהָדָא דְתַנֵּי רִבִּי הוֹשַׁעְיָה. מָה אִם טְהוֹרָה שֶׁהִיא בְעָוֹן מִיתָה אֶצֶל זָרִים הֲרֵי הִיא עוֹלָה. טְמֵאָה שֶׁהִיא בַעֲשֵׂה אֶצֶל כֹהֲנִים לֹא כָל־שֶׁכֵּן.
Rebbi Yudan bar Pazi and Rebbi Ayvo bar Naggari were sitting and saying: We did state “after they conceded“; who conceded to whom? The House of Shammai to the House of Hillel or the House of Hillel to the House of Shammai? They said, let us go out and study. The went out and heard Rebbi Ḥizqiah, Rebbi Aḥa in the name of Rebbi Jehudah ben Levi. We never find the House of (Hillel) [Shammai] conceding to the House of (Shammai) [Hillel] except in this matter. Rebbi Ḥunah in the name of Rav Abbaia: The Mishnah says so. “If someone pours from vessel to vessel and a ṭevul yom touches it, it should be lifted by 101.” If you say that the House of Hillel conceded to the House of Shammai that it cannot be lifted, who is the Tanna here, neither the House of Shammai nor the House of Hillel! Rebbi Idi said, we might say that the House of Hillel stated this before they conceded. Rebbi Yose said, the Mishnah said so: “After they conceded, Rebbi Eliezer said it should be lifted and burned,” and is Rebbi Eliezer not a follower of Shammai? Rebbi Ḥinena said, the Mishnah said so, after they conceded one to another that it should be lifted, the House of Shammai recused themselves and the others agree with us. Rebbi Abun says, there is another answer, following what Rebbi Hoshaia stated: Since pure {heave}, which for outsiders is forbidden as deadly sin, can be lifted, certainly also impure {heave} which is {prohibited} as positive commandment for Cohanim.
מַה זָכוּ בֵית הִלֵּל שֶׁתִּיקָּבַע הֲלָכָה כְדִבְרֵיהֶן. אָמַר רִבִּי יוּדָה בַּר פָּזִי. שֶׁהָיוּ מַקְדִּימִין דִּבְרֵי בֵית שַׁמַּי לְדִבְרֵיהֶן. וְלֹא עוֹד אֶלָּא שֶׁהָיוּ רוֹאֵין דִּבְרֵי בֵית שַׁמַּי וְחוֹזְרִין בָהֶן. הָתִיב רִבִּי סִימוֹן בַּר זֶבֶד קוֹמֵי רִבִּי אִילָא. אוֹ נֹאמַר. תְּנָייָה חַמְתּוֹן סַבִּין מִינּוֹן וְאַקְדְּמוֹן. וְהָא תַנֵּי. מַעֲשֶׂה שֶׁהָֽלְכוּ זִקְנֵי בֵית שַׁמַּי וְזִקְנֵי בֵית הִלֵּל לְבַקֵּר אֶת יוֹחָנָן בֶּן הַחוֹרוֹנִי. נֹאמַר. זְקֵינֵינוּ וְזִקְנֵיכֶם. אָמַר רִבִּי זְעוּרָה רַב חוּנָה בְשֶׁם רַב. הֲלָכָה כְבֵית שַׁמַּי. רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה רִבִּי שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר רַב יִצְחָק בְשֶׁם רַב. מִמַּה שֶׁסִּילְּקוּ בֵית שַׁמַּי לְבֵית הִלֵּל. הָדָא אָֽמְרָה. הֲלָכָה כְדִבְרֵיהֶן.
From where did the House of Hillel merit that practice should be fixed following their words? Rebbi Jehudah bar Pazi said, because they quoted the words of the House of Shammai before their own words. Not only that, but if they were convinced by the words of the House of Shammai they changed their opinions. Rebbi Simon bar Zeved objected before Rebbi Ila: Or could we say that the Tanna saw that they were older and quoted them first? But did we not state, “it happened that the elders of the House of Shammai and the House of Hillel went to visit Joḥanan from Hauran”? We could have said, our elders and your elders. Rebbi Ze`ira said, Rav Ḥuna in the name of Rav: Practice follows the House of Shammai. Rebbi Jeremiah, Rebbi Samuel bar Rav Isaac in the name of Rav: Since the House of Shammai dismissed the House of Hillel, this implies that practice follows their words.

תנו רבנן דיני ממונות בשלשה

The Sages taught in a baraita: Cases of monetary law are adjudicated by three.

ואם היה מומחה לרבים דן אפילו יחידי אמר רב נחמן כגון אנא דן דיני ממונות ביחידי וכן אמר ר' חייא כגון אנא דן דיני ממונות ביחידי איבעיא להו כגון אנא דגמירנא וסבירנא ונקיטנא רשותא

But if he was an acknowledged expert, then he may judge even alone. Rav Naḥman said: One such as I may judge cases of monetary law alone. And similarly, Rabbi Ḥiyya said: One such as I may judge cases of monetary law alone. A dilemma was raised before the Sages: What is meant by "Such as I"? That I am gamirna [learned] and savirna [have developed moral intuition], and have received permission.

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