Tarmudai of Yevamot 16b - supplement to Channukah 5785 2024
עַד שֶׁתִּכְלֶה רֶגֶל מִן הַשּׁוּק. וְעַד כַּמָּה? אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: עַד דְּכָלְיָא רִיגְלָא דְתַרְמוֹדָאֵי.
The expression until traffic in the marketplace ceases is mentioned here, and the Gemara asks: Until when exactly is this time? Rabba bar bar Ḥana said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Until the traffic of the people of Tadmor [tarmodaei] ceases. They sold kindling wood and remained in the marketplace later than everyone else. People who discovered at sunset that they had exhausted their wood supply could purchase wood from them.
רגלא דתרמודאי - שם אומה מלקטי עצים דקים ומתעכבין בשוק עד שהולכים בני השוק לבתיהם משחשכה ומבעירים בבתיהם אור וכשצריכין לעצים יוצאים וקונין מהן:
The traffic of the tarmoda’ei: It is the name of a nation of wood collectors. And they stay in the marketplace after the people of the marketplace go to their homes after dark and light the fire in their homes. And when [the latter] need [more] wood, they go out and buy [it] from them.

רי''ף, ר' יצחק אלפסי:

עד שתכלה רגל מן השוק עד כמה א"ר יוחנן עד דכליא רגלא דתרמודאי. פירוש: עצים ידועים אצלם ונקראים תרמודא ובני אדם המביאין אותם נקראין תרמודאי ומתעכבין עד אחר שקיעת החמה

RIF - Rabbi Yitzhak Alfasi (i.e., from Fez, North Africa):

Until when exactly is this time? Rabba bar bar Ḥana said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Until the traffic of the people of Tadmor [tarmodaei] ceases. Commentary: Wood that was known to them called Tarmoda. The people who would bring them were called Tarmoda'ei, and they would wait (and continue selling the wood) until after the sun set.

The word Tarmud occurs in one other place in the Talmud with several very negative descriptions of the peple from there. It is this text that the Mei Hashiloach is using rather than the better known fire wood collectors.

מִתַּרְמוֹד מַאי טַעְמָא לָא? פְּלִיגִי בַּהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְסָבַיָּא, חַד אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם עַבְדֵי שְׁלֹמֹה, וְחַד אָמַר: מִשּׁוּם בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלַיִם.
§ The Gemara asks: And what is the reason that the Sages do not accept converts from Tarmod? Rabbi Yoḥanan and the Elders disagree about this matter. Although they concur that converts from Tarmod are not accepted, they disagree with regard to the reason. One of them said that it is due to the servants of King Solomon. Solomon built a city in Tarmod (see I Kings 9:18), and his gentile servants, taking advantage of their status and power, married Jewish women unlawfully. Therefore, it is possible that the inhabitants of Tarmod and their descendants are mamzerim. And the other one said that it is due to the daughters of Jerusalem, who were taken captive and raped and gave birth to children among the gentiles.
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מִשּׁוּם עַבְדֵי שְׁלֹמֹה, קָסָבַר: גּוֹי וְעֶבֶד הַבָּא עַל בַּת יִשְׂרָאֵל — הַוָּלָד מַמְזֵר. אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מִשּׁוּם בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, מַאי הִיא? פְּלִיגִי בַּהּ רַב יוֹסֵף וְרַבָּנַן, וְתַרְוַיְיהוּ מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה.
The Gemara comments: Granted, according to the one who said that it is due to the servants of Solomon, this is logical, as he holds that in the case of a gentile or a slave who had intercourse with a Jewish woman, the offspring is a mamzer. Accordingly, as the servants of Solomon were slaves and they engaged in intercourse with Jewish women, their children are considered mamzerim. However, according to the one who said that it is due to the daughters of Jerusalem, what is the reason that the concern applied specifically to Tarmod and no other cities? Rav Yosef and the Rabbis disagree with regard to this question, and both stated their opinions in the name of Rabba bar bar Ḥana.
חַד אָמַר: תְּרֵיסַר אַלְפֵי גַּבְרֵי וְשִׁיתָּא אַלְפֵי קַשְׁתּוֹיֵי, וְחַד אָמַר: תְּרֵיסַר אַלְפֵי גַּבְרֵי, וּמִנַּיְיהוּ שִׁיתָּא אַלְפֵי קַשְׁתּוֹיֵי, בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁנִּכְנְסוּ גּוֹיִם לַהֵיכָל, הַכֹּל נִפְנוּ עַל כֶּסֶף וְזָהָב, וְהֵם נִפְנוּ עַל בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״נָשִׁים בְּצִיּוֹן עִנּוּ בְּתוּלוֹת בְּעָרֵי יְהוּדָה״.
The Gemara elaborates: One of them said that twelve thousand men and six thousand archers came from Tarmod, and the other one said that there were twelve thousand men, of whom six thousand were archers. When the gentiles entered the Sanctuary during the conquest of Jerusalem, they all turned to plunder the silver and the gold they saw there, but the warriors of Tarmod turned to the daughters of Jerusalem, as it is stated: “They have ravished the women in Zion, the maidens in the cities of Judah” (Lamentations 5:11). According to the opinion that children born of relations between gentiles and Jewish women are mamzerim, all the children born to these women are mamzerim.

How dark is dark, in terms of the maximum time for mitzvah of lighting chanukah lights? Very dark. This is when everyone has stopped working and is back home. The tarmudai are those who still hope someone will come out of their homes to come and purchase wood. They are the ones who hope despite seeing all dark, and everyone went home. It is when those who hope despite all the darkness and solitude surrounding them - when they go home, that's when you give up lighting chanukah candles. Before that, you are still obligated to light.

This applies to Chanukah candles, and this applies to our relationships with ourselves, and this applies to the relationships we have with each other, and this applies to the world.

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This thought is from Rabbi Nelly Altenburger

the full source Sheet is here

https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/208894.12?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en

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Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe (1902-1994)

My father-in-law reported this conversation with his own father Rebbe Sholom Dov-Ber, then the Lubavitcher Rebbe:

The hasid asked: Rebbe, what is a hasid?

The Rebbe answered: A hasid is a streetlamp lighter.

In olden days, there was a person in every town who would light the gas streetlamps with a light he carried at the end of a long pole. On the street corners, the lamps were there in readiness, waiting to be lit. A streetlamp lighter has a pole with fire. He knows that the fire is not his own, and he goes around lighting all the lamps on his route.”

Today, the lamps are there, but they need to be lit. It is written, “The soul of man is a lamp of God,” and it is also written, “A mitzvah is a lamp and the Torah is light.” A hasid is one who puts personal affairs aside and goes around lighting up the souls of Jews with the light of Torah and mitzvot. Jewish souls are in readiness to be lit. Sometimes they are around the corner. Sometimes they are in a wilderness or at sea. But there must be someone who disregards personal comforts and conveniences and goes out to ignite these lamps with his or her flame. That is the function of a true hasid.

וַיִּ֤בֶן שְׁלֹמֹה֙ אֶת־גָּ֔זֶר וְאֶת־בֵּ֥ית חֹרֹ֖ן תַּחְתּֽוֹן׃
So Solomon fortified Gezer, lower Beth-horon,
וְאֶֽת־בַּעֲלָ֛ת וְאֶת־[תַּדְמֹ֥ר] (תמר) בַּמִּדְבָּ֖ר בָּאָֽרֶץ׃
Baalith, and Tamar in the wilderness, in the land [of Judah],
ויבן את תדמור במדבר. (ובמלכים א ט׳:י״ח) כתיב את תמור ותדמור קרינן וזה ששנינו ביבמות אין מקבלים גרים מן התרמודים ובב"ר בפרשת עקידה מפרש שעזרו לשונאיהם של ישראל ולפי שהמירו עצמם ונתחלפו לרעה בסוף על כן נכתב במלכים תמור לשון תמורה שהיה להם לעשות לישראל חסד עשה עמהם שלמה שבנה להם כרך תדמור ומשום שלמה לא נכתב כאן תמור אלא תדמור כלומר עיר חשובה הכל לכבוד שלמה שאין כבוד שלמה לומר כאן הא בנה כרך שמרדו בו וקלקלו בו ועל כן כתב תדמור ולא תמור:
And he built Tadmor in the desert In I Kings (9:18) it [the name] is written “Tamar,” but read, “Tadmor.” This accounts for that which we learned in Tractate Jebamoth (16a): We may not accept proselytes from the Tarmodites; and in Genesis Rabbah (56:11), in the portion dealing with the binding [of Isaac] it is explained that they aided Israel’s enemies, and because they changed themselves and became worse, the word תָּמָר is used in Kings, an expression of exchange (תְּמוּרָה), for they should have repaid Israel for the kindness that Solomon bestowed upon them, for he built the city of Tadmor for them. Because of Solomon, it is not written here “Tamar,” but “Tadmor,” i.e., an important city, in deference to Solomon’s honor, for it is no honor to Solomon to say here that he built a city which rebelled against him and sinned against him. Therefore, it is written, “Tadmor,” and not “Tamar.”
תמר. תדמר קרי ועיין מ"ש (בדניאל ב') על הזמנתון ובב"ר פרשת כ"ו וירש זרעך את שער שונאיו ר' אומר זו תרמוד אשריו כל מי שרואה במפלתה של תרמוד שהיתה שותפת בשני תרבנות וכו' והכי איתא באיכה רבתי פסוק בלע ה'. וירושלמי פ' ד' דתענית ובסוף פ"ק דיבמות אין מקבלין גרים מן התרמודים וכו' ותו אמרינן התם עתידין ישראל דעבדי יומא טבא כי חריב תרמוד. וכתב רש"י בד"ה ב' ח' דבמלכים כתיב את תמר ותרמוד קרינן וזהו ששנינו ביבמות אין מקבלים גרים מן התרמודים ובב"ר פרשת עקידה מפרש שעזרו לשונאיהם של ישראל ולפי שהמירו אלמם ונתחלפו לרעה בסוף על כן נכתב במלכים תמר לשון תמורה שהיה להם לעשות לישראל חסד שעשה עמהם שלמה שבנה להם כרך תרמוד ומשום שלמה לא נכתב כאן הוא בנה כרך דמרדו בו וקלקלו בו על כן כתב תדמור ולא תמר ועיין יפה תואר בב"ר שם סימן י"ט ומ"ש סוף פרשת וירא בפסוק וירש זרעך את שער אויביו:
Solomon marched against Hamath-zobah and overpowered it.
He built Tadmor in the desert and all the garrison towns that he built in Hamath.
וּפְאַת֙ נֶ֣גֶב תֵּימָ֔נָה מִתָּמָ֗ר עַד־מֵי֙ מְרִיב֣וֹת קָדֵ֔שׁ נַחֲלָ֖ה אֶל־הַיָּ֣ם הַגָּד֑וֹל וְאֵ֥ת פְּאַת־תֵּימָ֖נָה נֶֽגְבָּה׃
The southern limit shall run: A line from Tamar to the Waters of Meribath-kadesh, along the Wadi [of Egypt and] the Great Sea. That is the southern limit.
וְעַל֙ גְּב֣וּל גָּ֔ד אֶל־פְּאַ֖ת נֶ֣גֶב תֵּימָ֑נָה וְהָיָ֨ה גְב֜וּל מִתָּמָ֗ר מֵ֚י מְרִיבַ֣ת קָדֵ֔שׁ נַחֲלָ֖ה עַל־הַיָּ֥ם הַגָּדֽוֹל׃
The other border of Gad shall be the southern boundary. This boundary shall run from Tamar to the Waters of Meribath-kadesh, to the Wadi [of Egypt], and to the Great Sea.

Additional reading

https://www.daat.ac.il/encyclopedia/value.asp?id1=3296